Dr. Haruna Dabin, the suspended Chairman of the People’s Demo­cratic Party (PDP) in Plateau State is one academic who has shown that the responsibility of the chairman of a political party is a measure of his com­petence. He has been foundational to the PDP, beginning at the National Secretariat in 1998 as the Administrative Secretary. He became the Director of Programmes and got elevated to the position of Direc­tor-General of the People’s Democratic In­stitute. A one-time member of the National Economic Intelligence Committee, Dabin, a former lecturer at the University of Jos, had prepared himself for exemplary ac­complishments in party affairs.
In this interview, Dabin, former Political Ad­viser to ex-Governor Fidelis Tapgun, bares his mind on democracy in Nigeria and other relat­ed issues of national concern. Excerpts:
Let’s take a critical look at Nigeria. What do you see when you look at the crystal ball, talking in terms of politics, economy and the rest?
Nigeria is a great country. My perspective about Nigeria, yesterday, today and tomor­row is that it is a great country with a greater tomorrow. The greatest assets of Nigeria are Nigerians. Nigerians are great people. We have capacity for every intelligent work. We have great human resource in any field of hu­man endeavour. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes we misapply this ingenuity in the wrong things. But every society has such peo­ple. However, I think that in terms of God’s gift to Nigeria and the ability of Nigerians to rise to every occasion, it is great. I am an in­curable believer in democracy, for example and the indissolubility of Nigeria. I believe that whatever challenges that are facing Nigeria are surmountable. I have lived through a few of the bad times. For example, after the annulment of the presidential election of 1993, the events that went through to 1994 were tumultuous. I had been political adviser to the governor in Plateau State; I had watched events unfold. It was as if Nigeria was going to collapse during the post-June 12 crisis. But we got over it. So, all we need is some degree of stability, effec­tive and efficient leadership. We again need to make sure that there is food on the table of ev­ery Nigerian and to make sure that every Nige­rian goes to school and every sick Nigerian has access to good health care. It is also important that Nigerians are secure wherever they stay. We have the capacity for this; so, I see a great Nigeria. I see a Nigeria that, in the next few years, every Nigerian outside this country will be rushing back home because things would have changed.
But not every Nigerian would share in this optimism because of the way it is being run. What is your assessment of the view of this category of Nigeri­ans?
It is a very myopic view. You don’t count the chickens before they are hatched or like they say you don’t watch the weather to go out to farm. You see if you are a farmer and you wait for all the dangerous birds that go pick seeds to be killed in your neighbourhood before you go to plant your seeds, you can’t plant seeds. That’s why there are leaders. And leaders are not followers. Leaders must see be­yond followers. Leaders should be able to see the possibilities; what is achievable. As a uni­versity teacher, one of the things I taught my students in preliminary political economy is the issue of perspective. Perspectives are very important. My favourite illustration is two peo­ple who were asked to look through a window and they arrived at two different conclusions. One looked down and saw the gutter and the mud and all the dirt and said oh it’s terrible out there. The other one looked through the same window, looked at the sky, the beautiful birds, flowers and said, this is wonderful; it’s lovely out there. So, perspective is very important. And I think that Nigerians who are pessimistic and who are looking at our problems today and think that Nigeria is going to collapse, we are not going to make it, are wrong. I think that those are followers and they are in absolute minority. The Nigerians that believe in Nigeria are in absolute majority and Nigeria will work. There is no doubt about that.
You spoke about your optimism about Nigeria and you painted the picture of a brighter future; but would you say our leaders are futuristic and would you still doubt those who are pessimistic about Nigeria’s rise to the fame of the true African leader?
I want you to realise that managers are not stakeholders. They are a small part of the whole entity. Nigeria belongs to Nigerians. Don’t mind the managers of Nigeria today. However, they fumble and tumble… we said so about leaders like IBB and Abacha, where are they today? At the time they were in power, we believed that Nigeria would rise and fall with them. It didn’t. Nigeria is, by far, greater than any leader we can ever produce. And unless that leader believes in the future of Nigeria, he will be trapped in the mud of time and we will forget about him and Nigeria will move on. So, the current managers should sit up; they should look at the bigger picture, the greater Nigeria and let their names be written in gold or the sands of time. Otherwise, when the history of Nigeria will be written, we will not even re­member to put a dot by their names; In fact, not even a dash. What Nigerians would say would be oh, there was so, so, so and so leader and Nigerians would hiss and pass. But let me tell you that there are Nigerians that have made enormous sacrifice for this country. They may be unsung today and we may not easily have them on the Guinness Book of record or who is who in Nigeria, but at the end of every year, you’ll see newspapers and magazines bringing out the man of the year.  There was a newspa­per or magazine that brought out the man of the year and said the Nigerian is the man of the year and I agree with the publishers. The Nigerian is an optimist, incurable. The true Nigerian believes in Nigeria. He could be in the worst of times and he would stand by Ni­geria. He believes that things would be better tomorrow. He would do his best, whether he is in the backsides of Ajegunle in Lagos or Nyan­ya in Abuja or Ungwar Rogo in Jos; wherev­er he is, he believes things will be better. He would speak of bequeathing better legacies for his children and grandchildren. Sometimes, it is the accident of history that we have and no human being can determine Nigeria’s destiny. Nigeria has a great destiny in God’s plan, in God’s purpose for the entire mankind. And to that extent, one would appeal to whoever God gives the opportunity to lead to lead well. It is like we used to say in our days in PRP, if you wouldn’t lead, then go back and be a follower. But if you are going to be a leader, then lead, let others follow. Let others see that you have courage, honesty, integrity and that you have all it takes for you in the next round so that when you are not there, they will say when so, so, so and so was our leader. That will be my appeal.
I wonder if you have not noticed that every attempt to reposition Nigeria has always left us worse than before. Let’s take a critical look at the National Con­ference, for instance. Would you agree that it has opened up issues hitherto thought to have been taken care of and done more harm to some regions?
No. I don’t agree. We should always discuss. There is no dialogue that is ever wasted. Par­ticipants at the conference have created more friends; they have got to know each other better, whether it is across the Niger or between states, they have come to know each other better. And don’t forget that they were largely appointed and they came in with some baggage that may not be as useful. For me, any opportunity for dialogue is a great opportunity. And I think that to that extent, we can never sweep away the outcome of that conference under the carpet. I believe it is useful. The outcome should belong to Nigerians. Even if the current legislature legislates on it, my expectation is that by all means, there should be a referendum. Throw it back to Nigerians in terms of yes or no once the issues are properly crystalised, whether it is about state creation, management of the se­curity agencies, state police, chieftaincy prob­lem in the constitution and other critical issues. I think that we should, at the end of the day, throw them back to Nigerians. And to that ex­tent, we can never underestimate the capacity of Nigerians to rise up and say this is what we want to do. I think when that is done, we will see good results.
But they don’t seem to have agreed on some key issues worrying some regions; issues like resource control, federal character, among others. These are the issues that are so thorny and were thought to have been brought under some control until the Nation­al Conference now brought them up. Don’t you envisage any showdown at the end of it all when decisions would have been taken on them because even now, they are yet to agree?
Since there has been wound there before… like we often quote a proverb “conscience is an open wound, only the truth can heal it”, I believe that if we are being truthful as Nigeri­ans and Nigeria is bigger than any of its parts and bigger than any Nigerian, to the extent to which discussions have been held, to that ex­tent I think it is good. Whatever are the final conclusions of this conference, it’s just a group of Nigerians. And as I said, throw it up to the rest of Nigerians. Let us have referendum and let them have definite inputs on what we think is useful. But the say that the conference has opened old wounds or widened the wounds, I will say there have been wounds before. They may have been widened so they can be healed. It is like a surgeon. No surgeon will bring his scalpel and see the situation and say bandage it and let the patient go. The surgeon will put his knife. Maybe it is a surgery and we should see it as such so that we can be healed. But I believe that if we listen carefully to our inner voice, the inner convictions that make us Nige­rians, we will make the best of the proceedings of this conference.
Against the run of protests by some prominent Northerners that it is their turn to produce the next President of Nigeria, Chief Tony Anenih has come out to confirm that President Goodluck Jonathan will contest the 2015 presi­dential election. You are a Northerner. What is your reaction?
Well, I am a Northerner, although, for me, that is often debatable. I am a Nigerian.
Why is being a Northerner debatable now? You have been wearing that tag for long?
Because since 1967 when Benue-Plateau State was created, I belonged to Benue-Plateau State then and now to Plateau State. There is no entity today in Nigeria called Northern Nige­ria. It is a mere geographical expression.
Really?
Oh yes. There is nowhere else I will put in my statistics and say that I am a Northerner. I am from Plateau State.
But when you talk about the zones in Nigeria, the word North still resonates. Why not claim that you are from the North and from North Central zone. So, why not from the North?
What I am saying is…Let’s not…there are certain things that have passed with history. The fact of the Northern region has ceased to exist since 1967. It is a fact. Whatever things tied to that name up till today are relics. The fact of an Eastern or Western region has ended with certain definite political landmarks. So, let’s move on from there. But you notice this whole practice or penchant to take us back. Even if they are facts of history, they may not be as useful as they might have been then. For me I see all of this as building blocs. And that’s why, for me, I look at the state structure now. Even the geo-political zones are not yet a constitutional issue. They are not in Nigeria’s constitution. We may allow for them to define our contestations for resources when they be­ come a constitutional matter. But, for now, we have Nigeria as a political entity. We have the states as another political entity. We have local government councils as another political entity.
In other words, when you hear coin­ages like Northern Senators Confer­ence, Northern Delegates Conference, you are not comfortable?
No. It’s not as if I am not comfortable. I don’t take it seriously because it is a lot of deception. People are living in some fool’s paradise. All of those people who tell you that they are Northern delegates, when the chips are down, they will vote or stand by issues that are defined by more critical micro issues and not by being Northern Senators or delegates. No. They will stand by some other issues that will define their positions. But coming back to the issue of Chief Tony Anenih, Chairman of our BoT; it’s not the first time that Chief Tony Anenih has made such pronouncement. At the victory celebration, after the 2012 Convention that was held in the Villa, Chief Tony Anenih had announced that Mr. President was going to run for election. It’s okay. That is PDP. For me also, I have no hesitations to say President Goodluck Jonathan, who is eligible to run for a second time, can run. I have no inhibitions and I can tell you and put me on record, that if and when Mr. President comes out and calls for me, Haruna Dabin, I will queue behind him to, first, pick PDP tIcket as the candidate of the PDP and subsequently to be President of Ni­geria. So, I can only congratulate my elder and leader, Chief Tony Anenih.
What would you tell those who de­scribe themselves as Northerners who are saying it is the turn of the North and that zoning should be employed?
No, zoning here is in terms of recognising that when positions are shared, we should give due cognisance to Federal Character. So, we have a President who is Dr. Goodluck Ebele Jonathan from Bayelsa. We have Architect Mohammed Namadi Sambo who is Vice-Pres­ident from Kaduna State. We have Senator David Mark who is Senate President from Benue State. We have Rt. Honourable Aminu Tambuwal who is Speaker, House of Repre­sentatives from Sokoto State. So, in that way, the concomitant parts of Nigeria are taken care of in terms of zoning arrangements. So, that provides equity and fairness. So, when Presi­dent Jonathan would want to contest, for me, it doesn’t stop anyone else who wants to con­test because those were the same arguments that were made even in 2003 when President Obasanjo was seeking a second term. The late Abubakar Rimi contested for elections. Al­haji Atiku Abubakar contested for elections, although he later withdrew at the convention. It is their democratic rights to do so. And that is the beauty of democracy; that the majority will always have its way, but you can never stop the minority from having its say. So, it’s good to have candidates from every part of the country. It will even be more beautiful if Gov­ernor Seriake Dickson of Bayelsa who is from the home state of Mr. President also comes out to say he wants to contest for Presidency. It’s okay. The field is wide enough for everybody. So, we can take them.
But the fear now is that the issue of President Jonathan’s contest is one issue that is likely to tear this country apart because it is being said that he gave his words that he would not run for a second term and now he is reneg­ing on that. That issue, if not properly handled, may spell doom for this na­tion. Don’t you think so?
He gave his words to who? Let the people saying so go ahead and defend it. He didn’t give his words to me as PDP state chairman of Plateau. So, who did he give that word to? Kwankwaso, Governor of Kano or the Gover­nor of Sokoto or Amaechi, Governor of Rivers who has defected to another party from PDP or Dr. Babangida Aliyu, Governor of Niger who at some point said that oh at some point President Jonathan had said he was going to seek only one term and came back to say oh President Jonathan is free to contest or Alha­ji Sule Lamido of Jigawa State? So, who are these people who sat with President Jonathan in a place where he said he would not contest for a second term in office? Who told them that they have the capacity to determine who will be the President of Nigeria in 2015? Who told them? If nobody told them, then they are living in some delusions. Whatever they say when they sit in whatever pleasurable plac­es they sat and they said they discussed with President Jonathan…he, the President himself, who told him that he would be alive in 2015, if not God Almighty. So, 2015 will be. The world hasn’t ended. As a Christian, if the Lord wills that President Jonathan will contest, he will contest. God will not stop anybody else from contesting with President Jonathan. In fact, APC, which is the latest bride on the Nigerian democratic environment, will present a candi­date and whether they present that candidate from Sokoto or Kano or they want to go for our good old friend, General Buhari, we don’t know. But they will also present a candidate. What I am saying is that we must respect the fundamental rights of every Nigerian. Every­body has a right to live in wherever he or she pleases in Nigeria, to contest whatever posi­tion he wants to contest, provided that he is not working against the laws of the land. I will never be violent. I have never been and I will never be. I will never subscribe to anybody who thinks he must use force or any form of violence or fraud to enforce his personal will. No. It can never happen. The will of the ma­jority is by far stronger than any such person. So, as regards 2015, let’s encourage Nigerians to dialogue with each other. Political parties must be as democratic as they should be. And I am happy that Comrade Attahiru Jega…I still call him a comrade because, at some points, I had left the university system when he was President of ASUU. But I can tell you that At­tahiru Jega, the Chairman of INEC is a man of credibility. He is a man who has promised Nigerians that there will be credible elections in 2015. I believe him. And I believe that Ni­gerians will vote according to their conscience; every man’s vote will count and like they say, every woman’s vote will count.
The issue of insecurity is also giv­ing people cause for concern. Do you foresee any clear danger if elections are held in any of the troubled states? Jega, the INEC chairman is insisting that elections would hold in the trou­bled states?
Initially, he had doubts; but APC held local council elections in Yobe State and they were successful elections. So, if APC could hold elections in Yobe State, who says INEC cannot hold election in any part of Nigeria. Besides, on election day, you are not going to have a market place for people to be afraid that they will be bombed. Everybody will go to the polling unit. So, elections in 2015 will be very peaceful. There is no doubt about that. In pre­vious times, we had these alarmist sentiments that have been bandied around. That has come to pass. 2015 will come and pass and Nigeria will remain one strong indissoluble, indivisible Nigeria.

North is deception, says ex-PDP chair