THE Senate President during the tenure of former President Olusegun Obasanjo, Senator Adolphus Wabara, has described the former president as a coward.
Wabara, in an interview with Sunday Tribune, disclosed that though he gave it to Obasanjo that he made him come to limelight in the nation’s political space, the former Nigerian leader would always use the backdoor to get at him (Wabara).
“I wasn’t a military man, but with due respect, I see Obasanjo as a coward.
He never for one day approached me for an issue. He would always go through my brother to get to me.
Even when there were issues on ground, he would never come straight to me, but he would go through my brother.
“I can remember several thorny issues that he would never come straight on,” Wabara said.
Full text of interview
Adolphus Wabara was President of the Nigerian Senate between 2003 and 2005. He represented Abia South in the upper chamber between 1999 and 2007, and was a member of the just concluded National Conference held in Abuja between March and July 2014. In this interview with select newsmen, he sheds light on the third term saga that played out during the administration of former President Olusegun Obasanjo, his tango with the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission (ICPC) over the N55m bribe-for-budget scandal, President Goodluck Jonathan’s administration, among other issues. Excerpts:
YOU were at the National Conference that concluded in July. Afterwards, we have not heard much from you about your political activities. Are you taking a backstage in political activities?
There is this saying that it is better to watch from the fence at times and see what is happening. You allow people to air their views and you try and put all those view together and then form your own opinion about things. You don’t just react to national issues carelessly. For me, I have my style as an ex-diplomat. We were taught to be seen and not to be heard. But in politics, you ought to be heard. But since I have imbibed that culture and tradition of a diplomat, I speak when it is absolutely necessary.
Looking at how the confab ended, how would you rate its outcome?
My impression is that I have never seen such an assemblage of men and women of note and integrity in Nigeria. I wouldn’t know how Mr. President and his team assembled such great Nigerians. I never expected that it was going to be a success at the initial stage. But as things went on, I now saw that the hue and cry about sovereign national conference was just making noise. We needed to have such a conference, no matter what name, and people vented their anger. We came in there with mindsets, but in the end, we ended up leaving there as Nigerians. We all believe that Nigeria will outlive all of us. But we had the opportunity to vent our anger and we did that very well. At the end, almost every issue that was agreed upon was through consensus. We did not vote on any issue and I think the world will learn a lot from that conference.
I must say that I’m not disappointed by the outcome of the conference.
But I probably will be disappointed with the implementation of the outcome of the conference. I hope that those who started the conference would be given the opportunity to implement the outcome and the recommendations of the conference.
But the president has set up a committee that is already looking at some of the recommendations?
The recommendations of the conference could be classified into three categories – policy, constitutional and otherwise. The policy aspect of it can be implemented without the National Assembly; so they could go ahead and do that and I’m happy reading from the papers that the National Assembly is also co-opting some of the recommendations of the Conference into their constitutional amendment programme under the headship of the Deputy Senate President. Generally speaking, Nigerians are really satisfied and they didn’t see the conference as a waste of resources. They saw it as a way of moving Nigeria forward.
Despite the hiccups at the initial stage, would you say that you have laid a foundation through that conference?
Having been a presiding officer, I must sincerely say that a true foundation has been laid. If I wasn’t a member of that conference, I probably wouldn’t have appreciated the problems in Nigeria. There are so many problems in this country and we just assume and gloss over them. But they were all brought to light at that conference. For instance, the South-East where I come from, an additional state was approved for us after Nigerians at that conference saw that it was absolutely necessary to further the unity of the country. We shouldn’t be punished because of the Biafran war; there should be a balance.
Honestly, I am proud to be a Nigerian as a result of that national conference and I want to commend Mr. President for the wise decision.
The PDP adopted President Jonathan as its sole candidate for the 2015 elections. Some people have said this is undemocratic and that you should leave the space open. What is your take on that?
The PDP is the greatest party on the African continent. I don’t see anything wrong in adopting a candidate. It was only mentioned that he’s been adopted as a sole candidate. But every other person democratically has the right to contest. It is not sacrosanct; just that at that moment in time, because of the good job the President has been doing, it was necessary to say “Please continue, we endorse you as the sole candidate.”
But that does not say no other person can pick a form. I can go out there and pick the form tomorrow and they will sell it to me. But they are only saying this is the candidate we think we are going to work for. But that does not preclude others from coming out. We hear of somebody coming out in Bauchi and all these other places.
We cannot stop the party from saying this is what we want, trying to eulogise our leader and give him a sense of belonging. It is true Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton contested the primary in America so to speak.
But here, we have our own type of democracy. We don’t have to borrow hook, line and sinker what obtains in a democratic America. It happened before. If Sani Abacha hadn’t died…..he was the sole candidate of all the political parties. But he died unfortunately. That does not make it undemocratic. It’s what the party wants. The party is supreme and the party has not told anybody after endorsing him as the sole candidate that no other person is allowed to pick up the form. So, anybody who feels that he is strong enough to contest against President Jonathan is free to pick his form. On the day of the congress, there will be voting. The process has been democratised.
What do you see as his chances? The APC is parading a lot of strong contenders against him.
The PDP will win. Jonathan will win.
He will win because I know the opposition. I’m not a prophet, but I can assure you that as soon as a candidate emerges from the opposition, the opposition will collapse from that particular moment because there are four or five of them that are jostling for that position, whereas what one would expect at this point in time is for them to come together, agree on one person to give a fight to the party to beat – the PDP.
For now, they are all there talking about PDP. But the moment somebody emerges and it doesn’t matter who, the opposition will break into pieces.
In fact, I wouldn’t even be surprised that some of them would want to come back to PDP. It has happened before but I don’t want to mention names.
Are you saying that the PDP should not lose sleep over the opposition?
The PDP should not lose sleep; the PDP should continue to prepare its agenda, its manifesto and what they want to do for Nigeria and Nigerians this time round. They should build on what they have done so far and not lose their sleep on the opposition. In fact, we have other parties now joining the PDP. These are parties that ordinarily would have joined hands with APC, but they are coming into PDP. That means there is something we are doing right. It’s a phase and it will take some time before we will get there. And with this man who is there is now, Jonathan, he is different from the last government and he knows exactly what he is doing and I think he is doing it right. He will take us to the next level in the next four years and of course we need him to complete what he started – that is the national conference. He must give Nigerians the recommendations of the national conference. That is the only way Nigeria will move forward. You cannot build a house and somebody else will come in there who does not know how the foundation was laid. So, Nigerians should give him chance to implement the recommendations of the national conference in the next four years as a solid foundation for Nigeria. The hundred years of Lugadism is gone. We are starting a fresh 100 years of Goodluckism.
With the level of governance we have seen, would you say this government has really performed these four years?
There is absolutely no doubt about that. I am 66 years old and I think I have seen so many birthdays and so many years; I’ve seen so many governments in Nigeria. When he presented a book, his scorecard on May 29, he gave facts and you can see the record if his performance. Just go and read that book. If you read that book, you will now see what Jonathan and his government have done for this country. You cannot say he has done everything, but at least you will see the trend where we are going to, where he started from and what we have achieved now. You almost find a PhD in his governance.
Scientists don’t make too much noise. We are talking about Ebola now, for instance, and everybody is shouting that Ebola can kill. But the scientists are working to find vaccine for it. But those scientists are not known. That is the type of person that Jonathan is to our economy and to the government of Nigeria. He is a silent achiever, a very patient one at that and he knows where he is headed.
When we look at the politics of the National Assembly, where you were a presiding officer, in recent times, we have seen a lot of defections. During your own tenure, it was not that rampant. But today, somebody will wake up and he goes to APC, returns from APC to PDP, then tomorrow, he is in APGA. He comes back again and all that. Now, this has culminated into a presiding officer Aminu Tambuwal of the lower chamber defecting to a minority party. How do you take this?
Frankly, it is unfortunate. It is really unfortunate that we did not nip this in the bud early enough and we need the judiciary to help the National Assembly out of this problem. But be that as it may, it was because we the PDP did not nip this issue in the bud.
We were at a vantage position at the start of these defections in the National Assembly, So, we did not invoke the law. But it’s like when a dog bites a human being, it’s no story.
But when a human being bites a dog, it becomes a story. Of course, some people would say that it looks as if people are now leaving the PDP, that’s why we are now opening the pages of the law to stop them. It pains me again due to the fact that all these movements are done on personal interest basis and it’s not national interest or the interest of the people you are representing, which makes it very absurd. But I know that with time, this cross-carpeting will be a thing of the past.
Do you think Tambuwal should resign his position?
With the speaker of the House of Representatives now defecting to the opposition, to me, I think he should resign his Speakership because, clearly, according to our rules and our laws, it is the party with the majority membership of the House that runs chambers. If he now sits down and finds that his APC is in the minority, he should just resign. Since what he wants is to be the governor of Sokoto State, then he goes there to face that.
Immediately, the PDP will elect another Speaker. He should not overheat the polity. He is a gentleman that is loved by many. I also love him; it does not matter that he has left my party. He is a good fighter, but he should not mess up his good name by clinging to power unnecessarily.
Otherwise, if he gets impeached, he will probably not even make the governorship anymore because it will tarnish his image. If he allows himself to be impeached, then he cannot even run for the governorship of Sokoto. So, he should just resign and wish Nigerians well.
Let’s discuss your personal issues now. Sometime in 2005, issues were raised about your person and some other lawmakers about N55 million bribe-for-budget scandal and you decided to resign from your office to go and clear your name. So far, we’ve not heard much about that case. Is it that the prosecutors were sleeping on the case or what?
Frankly, that brings me to my naivety also, because I always allow things to run its course. But you are talking of 2005 and next year will make it 10 years. Of course, you asked earlier why I am not active and why I have been silent. You see, I’m a man from a very humble home and would expect that things should take their natural courses. That’s why I waited for that judgment discharging me from the Court of Appeal. That judgment was challenged by the ICPC up to the Supreme Court. One thing is very clear and no member of judiciary will say that I, Senator Adolphus Wabara, have come to lobby for anything. I’ve not lobbied anybody. But I have exhausted my patience as we speak.
Even if I was going to be imprisoned by Obasanjo, because I refused his third term bid, I would have served the term and I would have been out by now.
I’m just asking the judiciary to expedite action as per the judgment delivered in the Supreme Court that this matter should be taken back to the lower court for a retrial and it should be done expeditiously. It is two years now since that Supreme Court judgment and I have not been arraigned in court again. So, for me, I see it that I am being used. I’m a very good friend of Mr. President and the Bayelsans. But I don’t expect anything from him until I’m cleared from this case of corruption. But I want to now hold the bull by the horns. I’m going to ask my lawyer for whatever it is worth to now ask for mandamus to compel the ICPC to prosecute the case in accordance with the judgment of the Supreme Court.
In the 10 years that the case has lasted, (Dimeji) Bankole’s case came and it’s gone. (Vincent) Ogbulafor’s case came after my case; even the Speaker of Lagos. So, why is my own hanging for 10 years? I will not die until I’m either imprisoned or I’m cleared and discharged from this matter. So, I will be asking my lawyer to discharge that case for want of prosecution.
How can the accused person be begging government and the ICPC that the case should be tried in accordance with the judgment of the Supreme Court? I had a judgment clearing me from the Appeal Court.
They went ahead to appeal in Supreme Court. But for two years now, I’m still hanging. Please, I am calling on the government of Nigeria and the judiciary that they should take up this matter as quickly as possible. This is 10 years of my life gone for nothing. I thank God that I’m living in good health but I don’t want to die. That stigma cannot be on my neck because I did not commit any offence. I repeat, I did not commit any offence. But I will get my lawyer. If mountain does not go to Mohammed, then Mohammed will go to the mountain. We are now taking the case to ICPC to wake them up from their slumber to prosecute me and jail me if necessary or I should be unchained at this point in time.
You talked about naivety. Why did you say you were naive?
The issue of naivety is that I have not behaved like a Nigerian. If I were to have behaved like that, this case would have been over. I also would not have resigned my position. I was once number three citizen of this country. So, I know what obtained in governance. But I have been naïve and I don’t go to anybody. In fact, they will even think that I’m arrogant – some will even say why has this man not even come to see us or to come to appeal for assistance? I did go to anybody. Even the judgment that came in my defence at the Appeal Court, I never knew. I was in London when that judgment was given. I never knew who gave that judgment. I never went to anybody and that is the way God will get me out of this problem. I’m going through a phase, but 10 years in one’s life time, for crying out loud, is unfair on this government. So, they should either prosecute or unchain me.
That’s what I mean by naivety.
You mean your resignation in 2005 was due to naivety and that you would have adopted a sit-tight approach like we are witnessing in the Tambuwal case, where he has said he is not going to resign after defecting to another party?
You are right if you say a sit-tight approach. But it’s not my father’s seat. When I was Senate President, it was not my father’s seat. As soon as Obasanjo wanted me out, because I opposed his third term bid and that even brings me back to another issue; that is why he refused to even give me my national award which I ought to have gotten in 2003. Immediately after being sworn in, I was supposed to have gotten that GCON in 2003.
Whatever he contrived came up in 2005. But because he had approached me in 2003 a month or two after we came in, on this third term thing and I didn’t know where he was coming from, I said “no, Your Excellency, this cannot work.” In 2003, he told me clearly that the way I was working, in 2007, I will continue as Senate President. I said “Excuse me sir, how can I continue as Senate President when by 2007 the equation will change; the zoning will change and it will be a northerner who will become the Senate President as we have now?” That was the end of my discussion with him on that day and that was what cost me my GCON in 2003 up till now. It is not even the case of N55 million bribe for budget scandal. That one came up in 2005.
What happened in 2003 that I was not given is just because of my position on third term.
But people will say that the third term thing came up in full glare when you had left office. Does it mean that the agenda had been there all along?
The third term thing, if you have not heard, started from May 29 2003 when Obasanjo was sworn in for the second term. That was why when I became Senate President on the third of June 2003. Sometime in July, he invited me to his office and that was the longest time I had stayed with Obasanjo – for two whole hours. My younger brother, the then Chairman of Hallmark Bank was also there. The Chief of Staff to Obasanjo then, General Abdullahi, was interrupting the meeting every 15 – 20 minutes for two hours and Obasanjo kept telling him to wait. By the time we came out there, there were so many ministers and so many foreign dignitaries waiting to see the President. They were wondering: what were these two brothers doing with Obasanjo inside?
He told me that I was doing a very good job and if I knew that was what he was angling for, I would have told him off. Anyway, I told him how can I be Senate President in 2007. He was trying to recruit me but I refused to be recruited.
The third term thing did not start when Nigerians started seeing the hands. We were seeing the third term thing then because of desperation, because his time was running out. He had a national conference too at that time and I said I wasn’t going to fund that confab – I said you have your contingency which then was N1 billion. I said you can fund your confab from the contingency and that was why that confab cost him N900 million. We have all these details. But I didn’t know I was dealing with a man who would never forgive. He begged me to be present at the opening ceremony of that conference and asked me to, please, ensure that I came there with Masari. If you guys were watching, I walked across to Masari and dragged him physically for us to go there for the opening ceremony. As soon as we finished the opening ceremony, we left them.
But you and Obasanjo started well. At what point did the chord break?
I wasn’t very close to Obasanjo when we started. My brother was closer to him and of course, I will give this to him; without him, I wouldn’t have been Senate President. He really did all that was necessary to ensure that I emerged as Senate President. I’m not one of those politicians who, after getting there, they will throw away the ladder and forget how they climbed up. I will give it to Obasanjo and I thank him for making me this important in the polity of Nigeria. But then, my younger brother, Marc Wabara, was closer to him. I wasn’t a military man but with due respect, I see Obasanjo as a coward. He never one day approached me on an issue.
He would always go through my brother to get to me. Even when there were issues on ground, he would never come straight to me but he will go through my brother. I can remember several thorny issues that he would not come straight. Maybe because I wasn’t close to him. But I made sure I served the country and protected him as well. There were so many bills he brought in there and I’m happy, if you checked through your records, there were so many bills that were brought in to the National Assembly and he was happy the way the bills came back better than he brought them in. So, if I were a rubber stamp Senate President, I would just rubber stamp anything he brought and return it. But then we tinkered those things and he was appreciative.
That’s why I like his objectivity.
Still on the third term, there was this statement you made on the floor of the Senate when you nailed the third term bill – oh my people, oh my people; was it a payback time for Obasanjo or was it for the people of Abia?
Frankly, it wasn’t a payback time for Obasanjo. If I was representing myself in the Senate, maybe I would have voted for his third term bid. But I was representing a people and I only voiced their opinion. As I said, if you remember, my home is my last bus stop and that’s where I will be buried.
If I didn’t do what my people wanted, even my corpse when I die can even be rejected back home. So, it was not a payback time for Obasanjo at all. He was not even in my reckoning. But I was more or less expressing the feelings and the wishes of my people.
There was the N50 million third term largesse then. Did you partake of it?
We learnt that N50 million was brought to your house?
Of course not. I didn’t collect any money. But that is another story and it is true that they were distributing N50 million. But, unfortunately, some of those who did the distribution are the ones enjoying the government today. If people like us did not kill the third term, those who are in power today wouldn’t be there. Many of those who shared the money are still in the Senate today. Those who actually physically distributed the N50 million, whereas those of us who killed the third term are not even remembered. I know that on Thursday the 16th of May 2007, that was the day the third term died. By 1.30 a.m., the sum of N250 million was brought to me in my house. The EFCC can come after me and I will tell them the whole story. N250 million was brought and I refused that money. If you juxtapose what I’m saying now with my speech that morning of 16th, I said anybody who has collected any money on my behalf should, please, return the money back to where it came from, because I knew what I was talking about, because somebody could say I collected that money and just keep that money. I refused that money when it was brought to me. So, mine was not even N50 million. In fact, it was N250 million with a promise that if everything worked out, they would bring more to me.
Did it not surprise you that the government that accused you and 11 other people of tampering with N55 million will now bring N250 million to you, so that you can do something for them?
Very, very ironic. That tells you how desperate Obasanjo was; very, very desperate. He wanted that third term by all means and he was prepared to kill or destroy anybody. But who will tell God that he has sinned. Nobody can tell God that he has sinned; that is why Obasanjo is moving around as the cleanest man in Nigeria, whereas one good thing about his government was that he protected Nigeria’s money and directed enough to other uses. The remaining that others would have taken, he safeguarded somehow.
If you also listened to me when I said Obasanjo was Alibaba and the 40 thieves, I said that he was the head and he remained the head. But one good thing is that he was taking it alone. Others were afraid. Every other person was a thief; but he was the Alibaba.
Atiku, Buhari, all of them are in the presidential race and of the issues they have been raising is the issue of corruption and insurgency. Don’t you see them using these factors to hunt Jonathan’s return to Aso Rock?
This is all propaganda warfare.
Insurgency, yes, we’ve seen how Boko Haram has metamorphosed and they want to blame all that on Mr. President. But we’ve now seen that you can’t blame him. Look at the ISIS now taking the same trend. Initially, I thought this Boko Haram thing had to do with the North-East, but I think it started from there and got to something else.
On the issue of corruption, the President has shown he wants to fight corruption. He needs to tell the anti-corruption agencies to show capacity at all times. if you look at the issue of Stella Odua, Diezani Madueke, you name them. That’s also what I like on Obasanjo. He will sacrifice half of his body to save his name and his government. Jonathan should not keep people there for a long time despite negative press.
When Obasanjo accused me of involving myself in the N55 million bribe for budget scam, I resigned. I resigned not because I was guilty; I resigned to go and face the case. So, I would expect Nigerians to learn from that and particularly the President. If any member of your cabinet is involved in something untoward, you don’t have to wait until …although at that point, you are innocent until proven guilty; under certain circumstances, you will not say somebody is guilty; but you will just relieve that person before he becomes an embarrassment to your government. So, you don’t allow any member of your cabinet to embarrass you. You just relieve yourself and go face the court. To me, that is the only area the opposition will see as his weakness. But you cannot say he is corrupt. Maybe he takes his time to get scientific proof of allegations.
Look at the case of Internal Affairs Minister –Abba Moro: some people died. You don’t allow such things to happen. You are not saying that person committed the offence but negligence is an offence.
Do you have any fears for 2015 election? Do you see the election coming and going peacefully?
The elections of 2015 will come and go peacefully because Nigerians are the happiest people in the world. It doesn’t matter what we are talking about ; we are the happiest people in the world. It will come and go peacefully. We have a way of solving our problems. On the day of voting, we will all go out there and vote and go to court; people will go to court and Nigerians will take it in their stride. That is why we are Nigerians.
So you don’t see the US prediction coming to pass in 2015?
That is not for Nigeria; maybe that is for the US and other members of the world. But for us here, we are here to stay. We have seen most of the campaign structures being handled by Northerners for Southerners. It’s not that they are doing it because of their purse or their pockets. They are doing it because of their conviction. It shows that in their own turn, we the Southerners will also support them.
There is no division at all as far as I’m concerned.
Coming back to your home State, Abia, there are lots of rumblings some people have gone to court over the setting up of Congress Committee and that is generating heat ahead of the primaries. You are one of the elders of that state. Is there any assurance PDP will go into the primaries a united front?
Quite frankly, the issue of the primaries in Abia, I frankly don›t know what is happening now. But I recall that as a member of the Abia State Elders Council, we held a meeting with His Excellency, the governor of Abia State, Ochendo, and we left that meeting with the notion that the next governor of Abia State will come from Abia South Senatorial District and that it will not be the sole decision of His Excellency to pick and choose for the people of Abia South who will succeed him; that it will be a collective exercise and I remember and want to quote the governor when he said so that if that person that is so chosen begins to disappoint Abians, they will not say it is because he was brought by one person. It will now be a collective responsibility. So that is what I expect to happen there. But I›m surprised that the moneybags from Abia North and part of Abia Central are now contesting that decision. I’m a member of the Trustees of PDP and we believe in zoning. We believe in internal democracy and one of the aspects of internal democracy is zoning.
We believe in zoning, otherwise we will not have peace in Nigeria because zoning is the only way to settle our diversity and the party is supreme. When a party comes up with a policy, all the members, no matter how rich or high you are, you must abide by the policy of the party.
So, for the likes of Uche Oga, Alex Uti and Senator Nkechi Nwogu to come now vying for a position that has not been zoned to their area, to me, its trying to destroy the party in the State. In fact, I doff my heart for Ochendo for being bold and courageous to say that the next governor will come from Abia South Senatorial District. He should keep to that.
At the risk of being immodest, when I was also enjoying some power and authority at the national level, Orji Uzor Kalu hailed from Abia North Senatorial District. He ruled for eight years; T.A Orji is from Abia Central and he is going to rule for eight years.
so, tell me for Christ sake, why Abia South cannot take a shot or will be deprived of that position. They keep saying all kinds of things that I don’t understand when we have produced the like of Minister for Labour who has stabilised the polity; we have Senator Enyinnaya Abaribe in Senate; We have Marc Wabara from Abia South.
Above all, Abia South is the District that qualifies Abia State to be known and addressed as an oil producing state. So, what are we talking about?
You cannot buy these things with money. The Alex Otis, the Uche Ogas can go to other parties that do not believe in zoning. But if it is PDP where people like us belong, there are no two ways about. They will take Abia back to Egypt if they continue this way. That is why I said earlier that in this country, we make laws for or against individuals. Now, they are desperate. If this thing does not favour me now, we must destroy it because I cannot wait for another eight years. Good laws are made for good times and for the future; for your children. That is the legacy you leave behind. You don›t make laws for you to benefit from those laws.
I’m appealing to these three people that they should, please, allow good sense to reign. Ochendo has said it and we members of the elders council agree with him that this time, it is the turn of Abia South Senatorial District.
We .have qualified people. I was surprised that someone like Alex Oti resigned his job to come and do what? He can go to APC if he thinks he has what it takes to win a gubernatorial election in Abia. Not PDP where I am a statutory member of Board of Trustees and I know thinking of the party. I’m also appealing to the party at the national level that they should abide by the rules of the party.
They should abide by the Constitution of the party on zoning. They can take their money for nomination forms but they should abide by the rules. Abia South Senatorial District is to produce the next governor of Abia State. Who it will be, I don’t know.
Source: #Tribune_News.
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