Since the gunshot incident in Port Harcourt, Rivers State, some months ago, Senator Magnus Abe has kept away from the press. But it was his 49th birthday and he came to Lagos for a meeting. And for him, it was an opportunity to celebrate. Daily Sun tracked him down and he talks about the gun shot event, his governor­ship aspiration, President Goodluck Jonathan, Rotimi Amaechi and the way out of the Nigerian quagmire.
It is hot.
The country is still experiencing serious security challenges, to the extent that the abducted Chibok schoolgirls have still not been res­cued. Between state and federal govern­ment, who is to blame?
The constitution sets out the executive powers of the country and whoever has the executive powers is responsible for the security of life and property, which is the ultimate function of the Federal Govern­ment. So, when things begin to get out of hand, there is no question of talking about whether state governments or the federal government should be blamed. We have a Commander-in-Chief. When it comes to grave national security, it is the responsi­bility of the Commander-in-Chief to call whoever it is to order and get the right thing done. So, you cannot begin to share responsibility; it is not done that way.
The buck stops somewhere. And that is at the Commander-in-Chief’s table. So, if the Borno State Government has been doing the wrong thing, it is the job of the president to expose the wrong thing they have been doing and make them stop it so that Nigerians can be safe. You can’t mix it up. It’s not done anywhere. After the buck-passing, the buck must stop somewhere. And the buck stops with the Commander-in-Chief.
Minister of State for Education, Nyson Wike, reportedly released a letter in which he advised the governor of Borno State to shift the exam from Chibok to Maiduguri. What do you have to say?
Well, I don’t want to comment on letters between two people. If somebody wrote to somebody, the person who received the letter should acknowledge receipt of the letter. But what I would say is that the whole idea of trading blames over this kind of thing is unnecessary. The important thing is that we have a constitution that guarantees free movement of all Nigerians. We have a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion for all Nigerians. And I have been saying this for quite some time, that for some time now, the constitutional guarantees that are given to all Nigerians are no longer operational in several parts of this country. There are parts of Nigeria today where you cannot go to church; there are parts of Nigeria today where you can­not associate with who you want to associ­ate with. So, somebody needs to enforce the constitution.
I don’t want to go into who did what and who didn’t do what. But somebody needs to enforce the constitution if we’re to have a nation. That’s the point I want to make. If somebody wrote a letter to somebody, the people who exchanged letters can come out to say what letters they received and what letters they didn’t receive.
But what I want to say is that we have a constitution that gives us certain guaran­tees. As we speak now, it’s not only in the North, even in Rivers State, the constitu­tional guarantee of movement is no longer there. If you move anyhow, they can carry you and run away. In the South-East, it’s the same. So, in several parts of this coun­try, we’re heading dangerously towards anarchy if something is not done about security.
This is not the time to trade blames. We need to be decisive.
What do you think is the solution to Nigeria’s problems?
I think that at the bottom of a lot of the challenges we’re facing as a nation are two things. First is that, as Nigerians, we have not put the truth where the truth ought to be. We need to have a country that is founded on truth, where we can look each other in the face and everybody would say the real thing in his mind.
The present system we are running is full of deceit. Everybody is pretending that they’re cheating the other person on behalf of their people. Nobody is doing anything for anybody. People are just watching out for themselves and their families. We need to conduct a proper census that will actu­ally count each and every Nigerian.
We need to know who Nigerians are, where they are and what they are doing. We need to actually guarantee that every Nigerian is a Nigerian. In other words, if you live in Rivers State and you pay taxes in Rivers, then you’re from Rivers State. To all intents and purposes, you should be able to do everything a Nigerian in Rivers State can do – that’s where your address is located. If my own address is located in Sokoto, then I should be allowed to do everything everybody in Sokoto can do so that Nigerians can actually see where they make their living as home and be free to make a contribution and actually be free to be Nigerians wherever they want to be Nigerians in this country.
So, except we’re able to get these fun­damental things in order; without knowing who you are, there’s no way you can plan for what you want to be. So, I think that we  need to get that basic foundation of nation­hood concluded. And then, we need to step up our unity in this country.
Were you actually shot?
I was attacked. I was fired at. I was injured. And you need to understand that when you say, ‘were you actually shot’, are you doubting that there was shooting or whether I was killed and I’m still talking? Do you understand what I mean? Because the context of people, asking whether I was shot or not, if I were dead what would anybody do?
All the people that have died in this country, what has anybody done about it? So, for me and my own family and people who care about me, our first joy is that I’m here to talk about the incident in one way or another. Secondly, you know, people didn’t understand the situation we were in Rivers State. It was not a question of if somebody would die; it would have been a question of how many people would die and when because we had a situation where the law enforcement, which was supposed to be for everybody, was now an instru­ment in the hands of some people against others. And those people had no protection.
You know, government officials who have responsibilities had their security details withdrawn and those people who did not have official positions were being provided with maximum security. You have some NGOs in the state that could hold ral­lies surrounded by and protected by the po­lice while other NGOs would not even be allowed to gather. If they wanted to gather, they would say they were gathering to abuse Mr. President. They will bring police to scatter the canopies and sponsored thugs would shoot at them and all that. We were clearly heading for anarchy; so it was a very serious and dire situation. I thank God that one way or another, Rivers State and Nigeria were able to survive that episode. If not, the consequences would have been better imagined for everybody.
People who hold positions forget that every position is temporary. I underline, and I want to repeat what I have said, every position is temporary. So, there’s no way you can use power to oppress and destroy people and think it ends there because you have power. It cannot end there.
So, my biggest instinct is to thank God that I survived that attack because if you were in that situation, you could have eas­ily died without knowing whether bullet has entered you or not. It was that terrible. You know, they were opening fire on us at very close range. And you didn’t know whether you would see tomorrow or you would not see tomorrow.
And this was on the instruction of people who were supposed to protect your life. So, I have decided to, as much as possible, just give God the glory and concentrate on what is critical at this moment.
People are of the opinion that you are following Rotimi Amaechi sheepishly, not out of conviction but because you want him to hand over the state to you as governor?
You see, when you say I’m following Amaechi sheepishly, if I follow Jonathan, will I follow him as a lion? Do you under­stand what I mean? People say whatever they like because that is the basis on which they want to talk. The people who are fol­lowing Jonathan, how are they following him, what are they following him for?
You belong to a political family. Even, taking Amaechi aside, I’m from Ogoni, I know the efforts I have made as a sena­tor to reach my president to talk about the implementation of the UNEP report. But he has refused. Is that one alone not enough reason for me to know that this is a man, who doesn’t have my interest at heart? Do I need Amaechi to tell me when I can clearly see that these people don’t care about anybody else?
What has the Presidency done for me that I would leave Amaechi and follow them? And when you talk about me want­ing to be governor, I really don’t want to say something that would sound one way or another. But you are a Nigerian; there are 160 million of us. I have been Minority Leader of my state House of Assembly. I have been commissioner for four years; I have been Secretary to the Government for four years and I have been a Senator of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Why do you think being a governor is a big deal to me at this point?
If in trying to be all these other things I didn’t do anything that I didn’t want to do, why will it be now, at my age, and as a Senator that I need to do things that I don’t believe in because I want to be some­thing? Nobody has the power to make you anything. It is God, who gives power. And God will give you power only based on how you relate to Him. If you’re truthful and sincere, whatever God says you will be, you will be.
If I were looking for governorship, may be, I would have been doing what some other people are doing. So, governorship is not the reason I do things or I do not do things. The truth of the matter is that as far as this quarrel between Rivers State and the Federal Government is concerned, the state is right. If you want to tell yourself the truth, you will agree that the state is right. And so, having sat down and prayerfully looked at the issues, I have made up my mind that the state is right. So, I’m stand­ing by what is right. Whether I become something or not is irrelevant. It will not mean that 10 years from now when they review the whole episode, they would say we were wrong. We’re not wrong.
Everybody knows who is wrong, so why are you trying to call on defence? Why would I follow Jonathan? What has he done for me? What has he done for my people? Even, look at the things that happened in Rivers State, what was his response, what was his reaction? Is that somebody who cares about what is happen­ing to us?
Then, look at what the wife is doing in my state. I mean, let’s call a spade a spade. Anybody who knows what is right knows who’s wrong and who’s right in this situation. I’m a human being, I’m not God. Within the limits of the facts that are available to me, I have taken a decision. Anybody else who has his own facts and wants to take his own decision can do so. But nobody can question my right as a Ni­gerian to decide who I would follow. And I have decided; I will follow Amaechi. It has nothing to do with governorship; it has to do with what is right and what is wrong. Power comes from God, so the two issues are totally unrelated. If I want to relate them, may be I wouldn’t have gone where I went but I wasn’t relating them and won’t relate them. Whether Amaechi supports me or not for governorship, it will not alter the fact that he’s my friend and brother and that we’ve gone through a lot together.
So, there’s no way that after politics, I wouldn’t go to his house and he wouldn’t come to my own house whether I become a governor or not. How many people in Nigeria have been governors? How many will be governors? How many have had the opportunities that I’ve had? So, nobody can diminish my contributions to my state.
With the way the country is heading, after 2015 do you think there will be an entity, called Nigeria?
There will be Nigeria. The fact that poli­ticians are cheating, treating their interests more that the interest of the country does not mean that the country does not exist. The bulk of the people of this country know that a lot of the politicians are selfish and they’re not watching out for the inter­est of Nigeria. And that is what is respon­sible for the rot in the system.
I believe that if you look at the events that have occurred over the past few years, you will see that Nigerians have actually voted to remain together. Because if they were going to split the country, they would have done so. They’ve had more than enough excuse from the politicians but they refused to bite the bait because a lot of people see that there are advantages of keeping Nigeria together.
The fact that we have refused to make the country work, to implement the consti­tution and to allow extremists and radicals from all sides to threaten the peace of the country is not, to me, evidence of a deci­sion by the people of this country that they are tired of living together. I don’t see that evidence. The basis of such attitude was there. If Nigerians wanted to present that attitude, they would have done so long ago. But they’re not saying so and I have not heard them say so.
Ultimately, the decision as to whether we will remain a united country or not is based on people’s sense of justice. If this man from Sokoto thinks that he’s getting a fair deal from Nigeria, why would he go to Niger Republic? If the man from Ogoni feels he’s getting a fair deal from Nigeria, why would he want to go and struggle by himself? But we must all know and appreciate that th e first reason people come together is for security.
So, if the nation cannot provide security, then people will be forced to look else­where. That’s what we should worry about; a situation whereby people by exigent cir­cumstances are forced to take other means to protect themselves. If Nigeria as a nation cannot provide security for its people, then that may be the foundation for the collapse of the nation.
But where this country meets up with its responsibilities as to the security of its citizens and if this protection is very successful, this country can match some of the other bigger economic contraptions in the world. We have the potentials to do it. What we lack is the leadership.
Why is it taking the Senate almost half a year to pass the budget?
That question is no longer relevant. The budget has been passed by the National As­sembly. So, it’s of no consequence now.
It is very important. It delayed a lot of things in the agencies and the minis­tries?
The budget was passed and for a long time, it was not signed but finally it has been signed. The problem with Nigeria has never been the passing of budgets. It has always been the implementation of bud­gets. No matter how you pass the budgets, if the budgets are not implemented ac­cording to the letter of the law, then that’s where the problems are. People forget that the budget is a law and that if you do things contrary to the budget, you’re breaking the law of the land. In this country, that is not regarded as anything. The budget will be passed and signed and something else will be implemented. That’s the problem with the budget. The budget is not a major issue but its implementation.
At 49, when you sit down and reflect on your role in the present political dis­pensation, do you have any regrets?
No. I live my life by a very simple dog­ma. I try as much as possible to do the right thing every day that I wake up because my father taught me the valuable lesson that yesterday is but a dream and tomorrow is only a vision. But today well lived makes every dream a dream of happiness and every vision a vision of hope.
I don’t worry about tomorrow; I worry about today. As far as I’m satisfied that every day that I wake up I do the best that I can do, I have nothing to regret. Regrets only come when you saw the right thing and you didn’t do it. And then you did the wrong thing for one reason or another and then you didn’t get what you thought you were doing the wrong thing for. Then you have something to regret for.
I am very satisfied with all the major de­cisions I have taken in my life. If I go over it, I will do exactly the same things that I did. So, how can I have any regrets? Where I am is exactly where God wants me to be. I know that 100 per cent. Why? Because every day I get up I do my best. And that’s what I will continue to do. I’m not worried about yesterday.
If I look back to yesterday, my dreams are all dreams of happiness and when I look forward to the future, the future is bright and full of hope. So, what can I pos­sibly regret?

Leadership, poor budget implementation, Nigeria’s biggest problems