‘What my husband taught me’
Senator Margery Chuba-Oka­digbo is quiet and soft-spo­ken until you tease her with some questions and then, the lioness within roars.
The Vice-chairman of the Senate Committee on Health, sat down with ADETUTU FOLASADE-KOYI during which she told those angling for the Anambra North senatorial district seat that the seat will not not be vacant in 2015.
Candid and blunt, Senator Okadigbo speaks on various issues. Excerpts:
A lot of pressure groups from your senatorial district are urging you to return to the Senate in 2015. Will you yield to the call, considering that there are heavyweights from the same dis­trict interested in your seat?
You’ve just said it that a lot of pressure groups are urging me to return. I’m going home and I’m going to consult and I’m going to let my ears be widely open to hear and be sure that those calls and those pressure groups are indeed calling Margery Okadigbo. Sometimes, we hallucinate as politicians. We imagine the impossible. We think that because we have walked the corridors (of power), we should be opening doors or sitting behind executive tables or legislative tables. In my constituency, and I guess, like in other constit­uencies, there’s a wise saying: that ‘you need to have carried bags…’ That’s a transliteration from Igbo; it means that you need to have some form of training, experience in whatever you seek. Political apprenticeship! Just like in any trade, if you decide to be a car spare parts dealer, you’ll be sent to go for apprenticeship to be able to know all the different components of the cars and the different models and years and all that. It’s not without reason. You decide you want to be the biggest bakery owner and I tell you that even you, as the owner of that bakery, if you do not know which one is flour self-raising, the agents, yeast, etc, a time will come when your chief baker would just call your bluff. Any woman who owns her home knows that by the time you surrender your husband’s and children’s feeding routine to domestics, you’ve lost your home. And I think we all learn that from our mothers. That is home-keeping apprenticeship. So, it is in governance; be it executive, be it legislative. You have to go through that tutelage. Coming to the Senate, I’ve seen this red book (Senate Standing Orders) before now. I remember a few friends of my husband say that anytime you are going to the chambers, you’ll carry your rule book as if it were your life because my husband knew every order in this book and you wouldn’t get up to speak and he would ask you ‘order what.’ and before you finished speaking, he would have told you the exact order that you needed to guide yourself. Today, I see Senate President David Mark do the same. So, you cannot claim to be what you are or what you want to be without going through that tutelage. I’m here. I remember between 2010-2011, we were running a campaign and there were quite few of us and the incumbent then was Senator (Alphonsus) Igbeke. We also had the former Minister of State, Transport, John Emeka and we also had Hon. Celestine Ohanze and the talk was all about ranking, ranking, ranking! Igbeke was incumbent then and if he has come back, he would have been ranking. Ohanze had been a two-term member of the House of Representatives. So, going to the Senate was an obvious ranking. And there was I, a ‘rookie’ and everybody was going on and on about this ranking issue. And when it was my turn to talk, I got up and said: ‘we’ll, I’ve heard someone say he’s ranking’ and I said to them, again, this story of how you ought to have carried bag came up. And I said: ‘I’ve heard talk about ranking and I want to know who amongst us has carried this bag the longest?’ I think I’ve carried this at the longest because I’ve lived with this man who you all say is the guru in this community and I shared the pillow with him. My bedtime story was nothing but politics and the National Assembly. It’s my bedtime story; it’s my good morning story. I’ve lived with it, I sing with it and I sleep with it. Who better can carry this bag amongst all of us?’ Thereafter, there was wild ovation. I told them that when I get to the Senate, I’m going to be meeting my husband’s colleagues. In the Army, they say the wife wears the ranks too. I’m wearing the rank of the Senate President and that is what I’m going to take to the Senate. So, bringing it back to what you said earlier, we went to my local government, Oyi, in Anambra North senatorial district, I went with the Senate President, I went with the Deputy Senate President Ike Ekweremadu. Do you know how much rank­ing we are talking about if I could bring the Senate leadership to my constituency? As we lawyers say, I rest my case.
You are going to run against per­ceived heavyweights. For now, you occupy a seat made popular by your late husband. Are we going to have an Okadigbo in the Senate in 2015?
You talk about heavyweights.
I said ‘perceived heavyweights.’
What is that perception? Is it the weight of the wallet?
Precisely.
It certainly won’t be the weight of the personality.
Some have even promised to out­spend you…
You know something Adetutu, if it were all about money, there are people who are billion­aires and these billionaires are not in politics. One mistake people make and I remember I learnt that from my husband, politics and money don’t mix. No, they don’t.
Well, in Nigeria, you need money to go into politics
That is where we make the mistake. Politics in Nigeria has been turned upside down! Politics is about selfless service. That’s where we’ve lost it and that’s where we don’t have representation anymore. If I must go back to that empowerment programme I did in my constituency months back, it’s never been done in Anambra State, never because what others have done before me was to go to the constituency, where you may have your clique, say, 20-100 people and you assist them. Mind you, all politicians assist someone or the other. So, you have this clique or foundation or people or structure but not in an open display as I did for 700 people! It’s never been done! Never! For me, it’s all about representing Anambra North; it’s not about representing Ogbunike or Onitsha as I come. The entire 99 wards that I represent, where, in every ward, somebody got something. It’s never been done. Never! That was the lesson I wanted to teach; that you do not have to give me your vote and four years later, I come back to ask for that vote; that for everyday you and I spend in four years, you’ll know that you have representation in Abuja. That’s why I did mine differently and that was why at that empower­ment programme, I had all shades of people. At that empowerment, the chairman of my local government, who is APGA, was there in person and he participated; he was part of giving of gifts to constituents. Even the Senate President recognised that and he noted that, for him, the biggest politician that day was Wiper, that’s his nickname and everybody hailed Wiper. That’s the kind of politics I play; that the APGA governor has anything to do and I get invited, I attend. That is the kind of politics I learnt from my husband. That my husband was a politician well known, well accepted up north than the South east is the fact that we all know and that is the politics I learnt. That you are able to make friends beyond PDP and my party, that was the politics I learnt. So, for 2015, I’ve done my learning process in 2014; my training as a lawyer was that we also go through the same tutelage; we even go on attachment. That was my training. So, professionally, I’m disciplined enough to know that there’s a process you must follow. That my profession also understands that the word ‘ranking’ is an integral part of my profession; that is the discipline I also have. When I look at myself, and I’m being modest about it, I look at the opposition, I look at the people I’m out there in the field with and I say to myself : ‘professionally, are you in the right job and my immediate answer is yes!’ The legislature is all about legal work, it’s all about framing. How many of my opponents have it? None! How many of them have the qualifications, in terms of the academic qualifications that I have? None! So, I ask myself, ‘what is this weight?’ I tell you, it’s a wallet weight but it’s not all about the wallet all the time. It’s all about acceptability. That as a Senator for one year, I came into the Senate and I was able to, from 2013, been able to put visible projects, been able to enter all the 99 wards in one year,  because we’ve not done much in 2014 because as you also know, we had issues with the budget; some of our projects in constituencies have not even been awarded, so, everything you hear about me in Anambra North was in one year! That I do not have the capacity to sit down at this desk to give anybody a letter of appointment, I can beat my chest and say ‘in one year, I have been able to get 41 members of my constituency into federal appoint­ments.’ That was done in just one year. I think that’s a record. That I’m able to, in one year, build none classroom blocks, dotted across Anambra North with seven local governments, I think that’s an achievement! That I’m able to put five primary healthcare centres, in one year, that is an achievement. That I’m able to empower 700 people in one year, from giving out motorcycles, grinding machines, etc, I think that is an achievement. Some people had control of agencies and are not able to show employments, I think that’s a query that needs to be answered. I must say something; I’m in familiar territory. I’ve seven local govern­ments; I was born there and I married there. I did not go across the Niger for the entire period of my existence as a human being. I have stayed within Anambra North and I’ve no plans of going anywhere because I’ve not heard that anybody is coming to marry me… So, to answer your question of an Okadigbo in the Senate in 2015, people who don’t know me don’t understand but those who know me know I’m a firebrand more than the late Chuba Okadigbo. Those who know, know that.
Have the years dimmed the memory of your husband?
It’s not possible. The children are constant reminders because for every child, there’s a personality that as they grow older, we begin to see in that child. My youngest son exhibits it more. He’s the one who’s inquisitive; he’s the one who you have to explain to him at 21. When he was younger, my husband nicknamed him ‘Mr. W.’ I see you frown. He would ask you why, when, where, what…those were his questions…that is Chuba’s personality. My older son-gentle, quiet until you provoke him. That is Chuba’s personality; then, you see the lion. My daughter-painstaking, good student, gives you your A’s and you have to explain to her why she has to keep giving you those A’s. She’ll ask you: ‘what do you have to offer me?’ These are their father’s person­alities. How do you forget a man like that? Sometimes my children ask me: ‘how do you know I am going to say this or I am going to do that?’ I tell them that I know your father wouldn’t; that so, I know when you are going to do yours. You don’t forget a man like that.
Lawmakers are angling for continu­ity in 2015 in order to not only preserve the institutional memory but also, enable the legislature grow when compared with other arms of govern­ment and also, see more women in the leadership. Do you agree?
Definitely, I do. I remember in the Fourth Senate, we had women in the leadership. We had Senator Stella Omu as the Chief Whip, Senator Florence Ita-Giwa was also in the leadership at some point. Even as it is today, I think out of eight of us, we are probably only sure that a few want to come back to the Sen­ate. I think the others have higher aspirations and why not? But the thing about being in the Senate and again, I learnt this, that when people, like the Senators are in the Senate, you are all considered equal. So, when I surrender my equality to you, to lead me, chances are that I have voluntarily given you that leader­ship and we’ll follow you but when you im­pose, that is where the problem comes because you must first of all understand that everybody sees himself/herself as going through the same elections which you ran that I also ran! Being female doesn’t make my election any less than my male colleague because some of us women ran this election with men and we beat the men and that’s what brought us here. So, I think, definitely, leadership should consider women. We have quite a few women who are chairmen of committees. That’s very good but in the next Senate, I want to see women in leadership. It would be good. So, if you ask me, if I come back to the Senate, would I want the same leadership? My answer is yes. I know times in the Senate when we felt all hell would break loose and you’d see the Senate President quell the storm. It’s a gift. Leadership is a gift from God. There are people who are leaders but they do not have good followers… the followers they have are just sycophants; that if it were possible to step out of that leadership role (for just a minute), knowing or being assured that you can go back to it, and have like a dress-rehearsal and see what those followers think, most leaders would be amazed, shocked at what five minutes out of leadership position can do. When you are a leader and you have followers who have indeed, voluntarily agreed that you be that leader, it works. But when you are an imposed leader, you have everything to fear.
Why must the South East be in the vanguard of President Goodluck Jona­than’s re-election in 2015?
I don’t see why the South East should not support Mr. President. When you maintain status quo as much as possible, the transi­tion is easier. Most of these issues come up when you try to make major changes. We, as a nation, as I said earlier, we must learn patience and tolerance with one another. That is why democracies like America work because the sitting president, an incumbent already knows he has a second tenure unless he refuses it and that is why they work; that is why transition works! I sit down here and I know that a second term is really my choice. I’m not worried about somebody coming to take my job. The problem we have in Nigeria is that we like to borrow but we don’t like to implement fully. That is the problem. That is why those democracies continue and I think we need to begin to see these things and apply them the same way we borrow them. The campaign organisation of a sitting president never closes down! It is on-going. In Nigeria, once we finish elections, we rest then, as soon as INEC gives the green-light, we jump up again. It doesn’t work that way! That’s not the way it is in America where we copied the Presidential System of government. New ideas are coming, new projects are going out; its a continuous process. That is why those democracies are working. You don’t have a break in transmission. It’s just like when you hire a contractor to site and later, you dis-engage him. To engage him again, it’s going to cost you money but if you keep him on site, it’s a seamless process. That’s the problem we have with our democracy; it’s not continuous. We need to change that mindset. For me, the biggest pain is the INEC registration process. I do not know why INEC registration must be boxed into one week, 10 days and all those kind of arrangements. It just doesn’t work! It should be a 365-day continuous process to afford every Nigerian who is of voting age the opportunity to register. Every four years, they say there’s voters apathy. Why won’t there be voter apathy when they don’t have the culture of knowing that you have a civic responsibility to go and register and vote? A 17-year-old who hasn’t registered and probably travels out of Nigeria, is not going to school in Nigeria, how will he ever know he was supposed to have registered in Nigeria in order to vote? So, four years, he’s gone for his undergraduate studies, he’s back, having done his Masters degree and he’s only always in Nigeria on holidays and the registration is not on, how would he ever know that he was supposed to have registered, which is his civic responsibility. Another sce­nario: he goes out and doesn’t return until he’s an adult, when would he know that it was his civic responsibility to have registered in order to vote? Yet, they talk of voters apathy every time. We need to change that. We should stop borrowing ideas we don’t intend to implement to its fullest. It doesn’t work!
What message do you have for Nigeria at 54 years?
My message to Nigeria is a message to any nation that finds itself at the crossroads. I think for us in Nigeria, we are at a crossroad because this is a time when Nigeria is experiencing a lot; we are dealing with terrorism, issues of kidnappings which we really shouldn’t lump with terrorism even though we can put a blanket cover and say that terrorism covers everything but I think we really need to distin­guish between the issues we are facing in our country today. I say that because of the case of the Chibok girls which confronts us on a daily basis, but I do think we’ve come a long way as a nation and for us Nigerians, I plead patience. I plead patience because when times like these present, even in our homes, we tend to get disillusioned. I don’t think this is the time for us to be disillusioned. I think this is the time for us to be upbeat, time for us to know that the challenges would come and they would be dealt with. So, patience is the keyword I really use for Nigerians as we celebrate 54 years of independence.
Looking at the socio-political hori­zon, do you see any hope? What’s the way forward for Nigeria?
I must say also that I have my little fears and I guess it’s the fear that comes with every four years of Nigeria’s history; when we transit from one democratic existence to another. There’s this fear of ‘can we make it to the next or through the next transition?’ I think for me, that’s the fear but then, being the political animal that I am, I’m ever hopeful that we can make it if we all address ourselves to the issue at hand and sometimes, I find that when you maintain status quo, you remove a lot of those possible issues that may present. When you try to make few changes, then you tend to rock the boat a bit. In my own thinking, we need to maintain, if not all, a bit of status quo so that this our fragile democracy (because it really is still fragile, very, very fragile) can be nurtured until such a time when we can say ‘Uhuru! We are free!’
In the 70’s, as a young woman, would you have ever imagined that Nigeria can be like this? Are you disappoint­ed?
Very! Very! I’m not even talking about now, when we’ve found ourselves in the 2000’s…my children were mostly born in the late 80’s and early 90’s and even from the 70’s you referred to, to the 80’s and 90’s when I was having children, as a mother, there were so many little privileges that I had as a child that my children growing up didn’t get! As a child, I could come out of the gate of the house where we lived, rode my bicycle up and down the entire street.
Where was this?
It was in Enugu. I could ride my bicycle the entire street!
And there was no fear of kidnappers or child molesters?
Nothing like that! There was nothing like that! We would ride our bicycles from one house to another, gather from that house, ride to the next house, ride back, stand in the middle of the road, maybe have a parent or two drive past who would wind down the window of his car and say: ‘you children, get off the street!’ That was growing up for me. But when I had my own children, in the late 80’s to 90’s, I couldn’t send my children anywhere without a driver and a nanny! Children would go to school, I remember in those days, my children were in Corona School, Apapa, they would go to school with Identity Cards and we, the parents, were also given ID cards and the driver needed to go to school with the ID card to pick up the children. So, we are not even talking about the 2000’s. In the late 80’s and 90’s, we already had those issues on ground. So, when you consider that I left secondary school in 1976 and I graduated in 1981, was called to Bar in 1982, my son was born in 1987 and by the time he started school, in the 90’s, we had to take him to school with an ID card and also, to pick him up from school. That’s the Nigeria we are talking about.
So, what hope do we have now?
Most of these issues, I think as Nigerians, we have first to list our values, I think we have allowed western influences to invade our homes. We no longer have the values we grew up with. Growing up, we were very mindful of what neighbours would say about you to your parents. Oftentimes, the neighbour would have finished dealing with you before your parents even got to know about it. And when you are dealt with at home, you could be sure that every visitor who came in that day, you would be brought out and reported. So, once you know or hear that there’s a visitor in the house, you quickly make your exit because you know that that problem would be re-visited. My mother would report you to every friend of hers who came visiting. You would be made to apologise and promise not to commit that offence again! That doesn’t happen anymore. I remember a couple of years ago I was visiting in America. You couldn’t hug a child anymore because hugging a child is suggestive of being labelled a paedophile. So, you now stereo-type people for some other person’s loss of value. That is what you find abroad today. When I came into the Senate and I got to know that the Anti Same-Sex Bill has been passed because, before you get into the Senate, you’ll get dif­ferent interpretations of the bill. I wasn’t even sure indeed whether that bill has been passed until I came into the Senate and I was delighted because now, you walk the streets abroad and you see same sex hugging and fondling each other on the streets! So, some of these issues are degenerating but people want to lump these issues with the government of the day or the government of the latter. It has nothing to do with government. It has everything to do with us as individuals and as a family. That is where the fundamentals are-at home because if you teach your child well at home, it will be difficult for that child to deviate. We, as parents at home, we have a responsibility to train our children. It has nothing to do with government.

2015: South East will support Jonathan – Okadigbo